Question

Actualizado en 4 feb 2023

3 febrero

Finés

Italiano
Inglés (US)
Sueco

Pregunta de Italiano

Tell me the differences between "usual perfect" (I don't remember its name) and a "simple perfect". I have a grammar book and I'm so confused about these past tenses: "perfect, perfect and imperfect". So I would appreciate if you could tell me some examples of those two perfects. Grazie!

Respuestas

Petricore

3 febrero

Italiano

Can you provide an example? Because there is no verb that we call "perfect" in italian. The english name might be different

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Vadelmamuffini

3 febrero

Finés

Oh, scusa. I thought it is called "perfect" in English. I'm talking about past tenses. I picked my grammar book and Italian these are: il passato prossimo (Fin: yhdistetty perfekti), il passato remoto (Fin: yksinkertainen perfekti (I thought it would be a "simple perfect" in English, yksinkertainen = simple) and l'imperfetto.

So these are what I'm talking about and it would help if I knew the diffenrences between them. If I understood right that "passato remoto" is used on stories, right but usually you use il passato prossimo. But that l'imperfecto still confuses me.

How could you say these for example?

I ate pizza when my husband was working.
I ate pizza when the phone rang
Yesterday I saw my neighbour.

I would appreciate if you could tell me the explanations when use these and when not? Grazie!

Petricore

3 febrero

Italiano

Oh ok so passato prossimo and passato remoto would correspond to the english past perfect or past simple, but in italian we distinguish whether the fact happened in a near past ("prossimo") or in a far past ("remoto").
Whether you use one or the other is subjective, so if you feel like the event happened is still somewhat emotionally connected to the present, you can use passato prossimo, while if the you feel like the event is very far, you can use passato remoto.
But generally passato remoto is used when the fact happened a long time ago, that is at least one or two years ago or could be 100 years ago if we talk about a historic moment.
In addition, passato prossimo can also describe an experience that you have in your life, regardless of when it happened. So it's used in questions like:
"Have you ever been to Italy?" = Sei mai stato/a in Italia?
- "Yes I've been to Italy twice" = Sì, sono stato/a in Italia due volte
- "No, I've never been to Italy" = No, non sono mai stato/a in Italia
But if you want to refer to a specific time of the far past, you would use passato remoto
"I went to Italy in 2010" = Andai in Italia nel 2010 (happened a long time ago in a specific moment -> passato remoto)
"I came back from Italy a week ago" = Sono tornato dall'Italia una settimana fa (happened recently -> passato prossimo)

Imperfetto can be used in two situations:
1. an action that happened in the past repeatedly. It corresponds to the english "used to..."
"When I was little, I used to take piano lessons" = Quando ero piccolo/a prendevo lezioni di pianoforte
2. an action that was happening in a specific span of time, that already concluded now.
"When I went out, it was raining" = Quando sono uscito/a, pioveva
As of the usage number 2, it is often interchangeable with the past progressive, in fact you could also say "Quando sono uscito/a, stava piovendo

About your examples, they would translate like this:
I ate pizza when my husband was working = Mangiavo la pizza quando mio marito lavorava/Stavo mangiando la pizza quando mio marito stava lavorando
I ate pizza when the phone rang = Mangiavo/stavo mangiando la pizza quando il telefono ha suonato/suonò (passato prossimo or remoto depends on when the fact happened)
Yesterday I saw my neighbour = Ieri ho visto il mio vicino

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Vadelmamuffini

3 febrero

Finés

Grazie molto! As a native, do you consider, is it grammatically wrong use imperfecto when you should use passato prossimo?

Petricore

3 febrero

Italiano

@Vadelmamuffini Yes, it would be not only wrong but also it could cause misunderstandings, because they convey different meanings. I know verbs are a difficult part of italian grammar, but unfortunately they can't be avoided🙁

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Vadelmamuffini

3 febrero

Finés

Okay, it's okay. Well let's try with English. How would you translate these. I ate yesterday. I have eaten lunch

and I had dreamed to become a superstar.

Petricore

3 febrero

Italiano

@Vadelmamuffini
I ate yesterday = Ho mangiato ieri
I have eaten lunch = Ho pranzato (we use one verb for "to have lunch" which is "pranzare")
I had dreamed to become a superstar = Sognavo di diventare una superstar

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Vadelmamuffini

3 febrero

Finés

Grazie

Vadelmamuffini

3 febrero

Finés

@Petricore Can I ask yet something?

Petricore

3 febrero

Italiano

@Vadelmamuffini sure :)

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Vadelmamuffini

4 febrero

Finés

Grazie :) Well, I really like listen to music in Italian, they are so good and this was one good movie (called The Prince of Egypt) I found the Italian lyrics and they are these:

"(Mosè):

E chi lo sa

Se Dio avesse scelto un altro

Per servire la sua volontà,

Non avrei cambiato vita...

(Coro):

Il ghiaccio tutto brucierà,

dai vostri campi alle città!

(Mosè):

Non c'è pietà...

Tutta questa distruzione

Io la sento dentro me...

Quante vittime innocenti

Per la tua stupidità...

(Coro):

Tante locuste manderò

ed ogni pianta soffrirà,

Più della siccità finché

di verde nulla resterà!

Il mio flagello manderò..

Disse il Signor..

(Mosè):

Ti chiamai fratello,

Non ti basta quello che tu fai..

(Coro):

Il mio flagello manderò!

(Mosè e Coro):

Lascia andare noi!

Disse il Signor..

Disse il Signor..

(Ramses):

Ti chiamai fratello,

Come puoi odiare me così

Per tutta la vita...

(Coro):

Le piaghe Io ti manderò...

(Ramses):

Tu lasciami soffrire,

E non importa quanto costerà..

Ma non cambierà..

Io non vi darò la libertà...

(Coro):

Disse il Signor..

(Ramses): (Mosè e Coro):

Liberi non vi lascerò... Liberi non ci lascerà..."

I don't know that is there l'imperfecto but in English (and Finnish) they are in past tenses so I thought they might be in Italian also.

So, here's my question

IF those are l'imperfecto (those Mose and Ramses), why they are? Is it just because they are song and in there it isn't as clear as normal speaking or are those grammatically correct?

Grazie! :)